So to start off, tell us a bit about yourself. How did your journey start?
OO: Growing up in Nigeria, I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur and I was interested in Tech. However, I did not know how to go about it. With my Mum’s influence, who wanted me to gain international exposure, I ended up studying in the U.K. However, before I arrived in the U.K, and while still in Lagos, I started a Facebook group called Warwick Internet Entrepreneurs – which demonstrates that I already knew I wanted to jump into the tech space.
On getting to Warwick U.K, I met up with the only person who joined the group, Joel Gascoigne, and we soon became friends, we did stuff together, and eventually launched a start-up ‘One page’ while at Warwick. It didn’t work out, so I decided to move back to Nigeria and Joel went on to build something called Buffer which is very popular today.
Moving back to Nigeria was a deliberate decision as I had the option of staying back in the u.K for at least another 18 months. It was an exciting time for me and I was deliberate about getting straight into the Nigerian Tech scene. I even made a blog post about it titled “Return to Zamunda” . My goal is to connect the Nigerian tech scene to the global tech scene.
So how did you get into Tech?
During my time in Warwick, I was always in London. While my mates went to Coventry for the weekends, I headed to London to attend tech programs and that’s how I got connected to the tech space. I saw how things were being done, met up over beer and pizza to talk about tech, and amassed knowledge of it. I loved it and decided I was going back to explore this.
While I was in the UK, two things happened when I launched my start-up for the first time (between 2008-2010). First, I was almost always the only black person in that space. It was so difficult because I tried to get my friends involved and none of them got involved. I remember one time while at Warwick, I organized a tech conference, and none of my friends attended. I wasn’t the only black guy, but we were less than 7% of the total attendees. It was difficult then to get black people into tech (let alone a Nigerian) but I was determined.
But things paid off around 2010, when I was on TechCrunch with my start-up – that was insane! People around the world sent me messages like “I can’t believe a Nigerian is on Tech crunch” because it was quite rare to see a Black founder on TechCrunch at that time.
Secondly, I wrote another blog post “if you want to stop Nigeria scam support techies” which wasn’t the wisest of things to do, in hindsight. The whole premise was that, if we have good role models in tech, young Nigerians will switch to that. But long story short, those two articles made the news. They were carried out by Business Insider in 2009.
That was how I became sort of popular in the early tech scene in Nigeria from the UK. Wow, Fascinating. Tell us more about your experience when you returned to Nigeria. Nigeria and tech in 2009? It wasn’t easy (laughs).
On my return, I had decided to do a meet-up, bear in mind that back in 2009 there was no Twitter hashtag, no community, so you couldn’t easily identify which people to follow on social media to source or promote information about the ecosystem.
Everybody was isolated. It’s difficult now to understand how hard it was back then because the world has changed so much now. It’s like the pre-mobile phone era when you’d travel from one state to another to visit someone and meet their absence because they had gone away on holiday (laughs).
I held what I would say was the first Tech meet-up in this era, because it was the first time somebody said, “everybody show up, make we just drink and yarn as tech people SIC”.
I actually met Shola (Paystack Founder) during this meet-up, and we built a friendship. I remember that we were always talking about payments. I also met with Akin Oyebode (Stanbic IBTC Bank) at that meet-up and said “Guys, you banks run payments which are messy”. The plan was to help them innovate and improve the payment services. I remember saying “you guys are the ones running the payment system. It’s bad, so let’s do something about it. I will bring the tech people together and we will build it for you.’
After that meeting, I kept talking a lot about payments with Shola. Fortunately, Shola had got access to what they call MIGS – Mastercard Integrated Payment System, a payment gateway and he was able to charge it to a card. When he told me, I said, “guy this is what we have been looking for, once you can charge this card anything can be built upon it.”
The transition from being an entrepreneur to a tech advisor
OO: I would say there was no light bulb moment. After that meet up, I was always doing community stuff and working on my start-up. The one I built was call based, a call center in the cloud. I was the first guy from Nigeria to get a Y Combinator Interview which was a very complicated process, and even though I headed to Mountain View, I didn’t get in.
My start-ups didn’t seem to be doing well but I was very good at bringing people together and advising companies. I knew how to make things work but maybe I just wasn’t diligent enough and just never minded my business. I am the king of unsolicited opinion (laughs).
However, I was always helping people. When I started the meet-up, I wanted to have an organization to organize that meet-up. I called it Nigintent- Nigeria internet entrepreneurs, start-ups were not a very popular lexicon back then, so that’s what I called it. However, in 2011, while I wanted to organize the second much bigger meetup, I decided to have a proper organization instead of just a group. So, I named that organization TechCircle. I did that because I wanted to take a more formal approach than using my name. That’s how TechCircle was born.
Around 2013, Eghosa (Echovc), whom I had met in 2008 and asked to come to Nigeria, eventually came and he asked me to organize an event which hosted between 50-60 people in the tech scene. I also organized a second event for Hiro Mashita, after Paystack came back from Y Combinator. Hiro Mashita, who was an early investor in Paystack, wanted to come and see start-ups in Nigeria. At the time, I was advised to make some money from organizing the event, but I refused because I thought it tainted the sincerity of what I was trying to do. I did request $3,000 from Hiro to host a competition at the event where the prize money would be $3,000. I didn’t make a dime.
To put the event together, I got a free venue from the Dozie brothers (Carbon Founders). The winner of the competition got $2,500, one other person won $500 dollars for popular choice and that was it.
After I did those two bigger events, I got some recognition as an ecosystem builder, so it was not a surprise that my friends advised me to pursue this thing (ecosystem building) instead of trying to build startups which kept going badly. That’s how the switch from being a Founder to an Advisor happened.
Oya Make We Groove has become quite popular. Tell us how it all started.
OO: Oya Make We Groove (OMWG) (again, my naming convention just comes out of the blues) started in 2017 by happn-chance really. I remember I had visited my friend Ubi and he showed me his big bar somewhere in Lekki, Lagos. I suggested to him that we should throw a party in December, he agreed, and #OyaMakeWeGroove was born. This was also the first time I sought sponsorship for an event.
For the first OMWG, we decided to make it very relaxed to create an environment where founders could socialize freely at the end of the year. We decided that my friend (Ubi) will donate the place, and people will sponsor and donate stuff. For example, at the first event, the PlayStations we used were from Paystack’s official residence and the chess board we used was my cousin’s. It was more of everybody coming in and bringing in whatever they had to offer.
In 2018, Facebook reached out to say they heard what we did the previous year, they were having a conference but did not have an after-party. At that time, I wasn’t bold enough to say I was going to do the event for the second year but once Facebook gave me money, I knew it was happening. I have to thank Chimdi and Emeka Afigbo. If not for them, I don’t think we would have continued. The second one was the validation needed to know that we had something going and we have been going ever since.
On Paystack and relationship with Shola Akinlade
OO: I can still see the first tweet I sent to Shola. I still have it. When I had that event, we met and became friends. So, we held a meeting with Stanbic IBTC which Akin Oyebode helped make happen.
I brought my people and Shola was one of them. On the other side, there was a gentleman called Gbenga Agboola (Flutterwave’s founder) who you know as GB. At the end of the meeting, Gbenga Agboola mentioned that they needed someone who could build a payment and disbursement platform. I mentioned Shola could do it, they met up and that was it. He did the work, gave me feedback after he had been paid, and even sent me an unsolicited commission.
Because of that, I made up my mind that anything Shola was doing I will support him. After a while, he was doing something for an insurance company, and he said this is the best way to collect insurance payments. So, he started building it for that business and we worked on the specifications together. Again, I wasn’t looking for money but on his own, he thought to appreciate me. To me, that’s what changed the game for me.
When he wanted to go to YC, he brought in some of us to help him. I was like the product person and one of the things I remember helping with was sending an introduction email to YC, capitalizing on my familiarity with YC. Although he was not selected initially, he got into the next YC batch when it opened again. Funny enough, for the three or four months before he got into YC, we couldn’t raise N2 million naira which he needed for some certifications and other things but when YC came everything just changed.
The stripe deal, its process, and arguments on Shola’s patience
OO: Two things, right? Series A was inbound thanks to Michael at YC. They were now interested in what are you doing in Africa, the numbers and all these things. I remember saying to Shola these people want to invest in you, they may want to buy. After they led series A which they did with Visa. I remember Shola calling to inform me that they wanted to buy. Then the acquisition process started in 2019 which turned out to be a very long one. They (Stripe) had to travel in on so many occasions to check on so many things. Luckily, Shola had a very solid team and kept records even down to emails from day one. So, a lesson for founders out there is to keep your books, records like, investment agreements, corporation documents, audits, etc. It was not that easy, but it helped that they had already done a series A.
Covid almost destroyed everything and I think people forget that we closed at the worst possible time. First, you had to organize, negotiate, seek approval from different investors while keeping the deal secret and all. This was very stringent but thankfully the people at Stripe are very good guys. Shola is a very solid founder and they loved him.
As regards the belief that Shola sold too early. Again, it’s an unpopular view but the fact of the matter is two things. One, without Shola and YC, this Nigeria tech ecosystem would not have exploded the way it has now. Two, even if Paystack didn’t sell and went on to be really successful, Shola would have been most likely replaced with somebody that had either an Ivy league degree or a white person. The fact that the first main exit came from a local home grown talent like Shola was a major.
When Shola was going back to YC, I told Shola then (people underestimate what Shola has done) if you go to YC and no one else goes after you, then you have failed. So, after Shola went to YC, he made sure other people followed him. It wasn’t just about his success we had to think about the success of everybody. Funny enough, because he took all these people to YC, the economy became bigger, and more people started processing payments and those companies ended up becoming his customers. But the typical Nigerian selfish person would want to be the only big boy. (laughs). However, it doesn’t work that way if you think of the bigger picture.
Similarly, when the offer came in and he was evaluating if to sell or not, I advised that he needs to sell because, without selling, we would never answer the question “Where are the exits?”
I can guarantee you today that if Shola didn’t sell, there would have been a slowdown in the Nigerian ecosystem. Most people that wake up in the morning and say, “My portfolio company”, all of them used Paystack to raise their funds. Whenever the question was asked “Where are the exits?” people now had Paystack to point to. If Shola didn’t sell, the legitimacy question of the Nigerian tech ecosystem would have still been unanswered.
So, the great thing about Tech is the fact that, with success stories like Paystack, it presents a chance that success can come out of it. Agbani Darego showed that there was a chance that a Nigerian could be Miss World. Even if it is a one in a million chance, everybody will believe that they would be the one and that belief could very quickly spread like wildfire – even as it is doing today in the Nigerian Tech space.
Asides from that, the news went around the world. I remember a tweet just after the news broke where Paul Graham said other companies will now start asking what it is that they know about Africa that Patrick Collison (stripe founder) doesn’t know. What makes them believe that they are smarter than Patrick Collison not to have entered Africa. So, that sent a statement.
So, without doing that other people would not have come in. In hindsight, looking at the numbers, Paystack could have easily been valued for 2 billion today, but the reality was Covid happened, everything was going down, and anything could have happened.
Most importantly, I firmly believe without Paystack there would have been no legitimacy for Africa. Remember that we operate with a bias against us. Immediately, there was legitimacy, and the floodgates opened.
You’ve said Shola is a good Founder, what traits do you feel others can emulate from him?
OO: I am objectively biased. The truth of the matter is that when people say to me “you helped Shola”, I smile because when I sent the email to Micheal (YC) there were almost 10 emails back and forth and Shola had to carry on the conversation. So, the most important thing is that Shola is an outstanding founder. People don’t know Shola is a full-stack developer. Ezra is co-founder and a very solid partner, but you should understand that it was only Shola at the beginning.
Shola is exceptional. Why? Because he was a full-stack founder. From logo design to backends to everything. Another outstanding trait is his integrity. I don’t think he is perfect but Shola would give you his word and that’s it. His word is his bond which is why everybody that has worked with Shola likes him. Shola is a master of consultation and before he makes any decision, he will consult far and wide. He is the only one that can cope with me, as I’m forever giving him unsolicited advice (laughs).
Shola built a unique company with a very strong culture. He cares about the company. It is not about growth at all costs. We will say Shola is more like an elevator that lifts his people to higher levels. I think other founders can emulate these qualities. What’s even more impressive is that I’m seeing ex-Paystack employees taking that Paystack culture with them as they build their own companies. It has helped that all those companies came out from Paystack. Another brand that people like is PiggyVest. So, there will be more and much more. If there is no more then that’s the end of culture. So, there is going to be more. Again, if your seeds don’t germinate, I think you have failed.
So as we wrap up, what are your plans for TechCircle and we will see OMWG in other African countries?
OO: For TechCircle, the work is to build and help strengthen the ecosystem by supporting founders. Tech circle is a vehicle for me to pursue my ideology which is to facilitate things that would help grow the ecosystem.
OMWG is sacrosanct. The truth is, I will just leave it to be a Nigerian thing. Last December, I was so happy to see the deals coming in. It’s just for people to come in. At the last event, I was able to bring in some of the regulators from Abuja. So you had a situation where Founders are having beer with regulators and discussing the ecosystem, to understand what motivates each party. That for me is the essence. The truth of the matter is that we should understand that we are all on the same side. We are fighting against inefficiency and so many things. So, we should know that even if we are competing, we are very much together.
On a personal level, are there any surprising things about OO Nwoye?
OO: Nothing. I am an open book in the sense that I try to be consistent. I try to make sure that nothing surprises people about me. What you know about me in public is the same thing you’ll find in private. Sometimes I am too straightforward for my liking. It doesn’t mean I am anything near perfect, but I try to stay consistent, so I don’t have to struggle to remember if I lied. What I believe in, I truly believe. I love politics. My Twitter persona is my real persona. So, I am not somebody that will surprise you.
Finally, do you have any advice for investors in the Diaspora looking to invest in Africa?
OO: The era of investing out of sentiment is over. Africa is where the growth is. It is in your interest to solve problems because our families are there. When we keep on saying Diaspora and they say where are you originally from? I say I am still from there o. So, the truth of the matter is that we never left. You have your umbilical cord back home. What we must understand is that the things you fund are the things that would improve the quality of life of the people you care about. So, it’s a positively double-edged reward because for example, you may have made money from Paystack at the same time you’ve made it possible for 100,000 businesses to take payments online. It’s a win-win situation. So, it’s important that they look at it that way. Again, it’s an opportunity. That’s where growth and recognition are. If anyone wants to have a session on how to go about it, I am happy to talk about that.
